Topic-icon Translate a marriage document from Russian to English

9 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #36190 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
tRafal:
Thank you, once more, for your help.  I apologize that I am not more timely in my thanks.  I have been involved in a project that required my attention.  
I have followed your advice regarding the birth place of Franciszka in Chorzele without any results, but I am continuing to look.  I am pursuing the marriage location of Michal and Franciszka - also the marriage location of Adam and Helena (there may be a clue here as Michal and Adam seem to be very close.  
I think I may have found the death record of Michal's grandfather, Jan Kolk, in Mchowo but my Polish translation of this document is very confusing.  Could you take a look for me?  The witnesses do not appear to be related - although, they are "self-sustaining farmers".  Hopefully, this can lead me another step back to find the birthplace of Jan.  His wife's name is Katarzyna Pajączkowska.  Jan was older when his children were born.  I will send these birth records separately. 
I spent the day with my parents for my father's 89th birthday.  I found many more pictures of the "Sugar Palace", thanks to your hint, and showed them to my mother.  She was very, very interested and thankful to you for the lead.  She continues to pray for you and your family.
I have developed a workshop for people to help them find their family roots in Poland.  I have found out so much information I feel I must share it with others to make their journeys a little easier.  You are mentioned in my talk as my hero!  I will be giving my first talk on Saturday at our local "Dom Polska" where I am a member.  I am looking forward to this!
Thank you again for all of your help.
Kasia
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9 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #36191 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
Rafal:
Here are the records of Jan and Katarzyna's children.
Jakob - birth 1809; death 1814
Maryanna - birth 1811
Anna (1) - death 1814
Anna (2) - birth 1816
Franciszka - birth 1827

Interestingly, the year 1823 is not available - that is when Maciej Kolk was born!  

Maybe you can find some information in these records for me.  Thank you again.

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9 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #36192 przez Molencki (Rafał Molencki)
Parish Węgra - the two witnesses, self-sustaining farmers, announce the death of Jan Kolka, aged 60, living at "podkomorne", meaning he was renting his lodgings and/or sharing it with somebody else, at 10 am 9 Feb 1829. He left widow Katarzyna Gersówna [her spelt Gersuwna], i.e. the daughter of Mr. Gers. If you have the other name Pajączkowska, it may mean that Jan was her second husband or the Gers family had had a double surname/nickname or he had had two different wives named Katarzyna.

Many happy returns to your Father!

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9 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu - 9 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #36193 przez Molencki (Rafał Molencki)
A bit of a mess in the records concerning the names, addresses and ages:

In Jakub's birth record you've got the info that he was born in house 27 at 4pm July 3, 1809. His father Jan Kolka, aged 50, is described as "pasterz", meaning "shepherd, cowherd, swineherd, etc.", the Polish word does not specify what animal the -herd looks after. His mother is Katarzyna Pajączkówna, 24, i.e. her father's surname may have been Pająk or Pajączek (meaning spider). The boy's death record says that he died 10am Nov 27, 1814 in house 12. His father is still 50, still -herd, mother as above.

The birth record of July 26, 1811 is about Marianna, daughter of Jan Kostka, 50 and Katarzyna Rączkówna (Rączka), 22 from house 26. Still I think she was Jakub's sister, the priest or the organist got the names wrong.

Anna, June 3, 1814 - house 10, father Jan (this time) Kork, laborer, still 50, and Katarzyna Pajączkówna, 30. The girl died Nov 10, 1814, in house 12, father is now Jan Kolka.

The other Anna was born in house 2 at 11pm Oct 2, 1816. Father Jan Kolk, -herd, 50, mother KP, 30.

You haven't attached Franciszka.

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9 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #36194 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
Thank you for your help...I thought the confusion was my rudimentary translation abilities.  I have attached both the birth and the death record of Franciszka.

Is it the norm for the age of the parents (in this case, Jan) to be generalized by decade?  I think I remember reading somewhere that this occurred due to the inexactness of the actual birth date.  

I'm trying to put this family together in my head to figure out where Jan and Katarzyna were married and, possibly, where they were born.  I appreciate your help on this one.  

I have been trying to read all that I can on the background history of Poland, especially the Russian partition, to better understand the movements of our ancestors in their historical context.  What I have found with my Kolk family is they may have originated in Masuria and migrated south into Masovia sometime after the first partition.  I understand the plight of the people in the Prussian partition, especially in East Prussia.  Grandfather Maciej then moved back to Masuria, possibly to marry, and returned to Masovia (Krasiniec).  I have begun to call the highway #57, the Kolk road because they seem to move up and down that highway.  :)  

Now, if I could track down the wanderings "off the road", maybe I will find the home villages of my grandmothers!
They seem to wander around like the Roma...My babcia, Agniezka Mamak-Osypiewska, (her family home for over seven generations was Zalesie, Młyńczyska and Stara Wieś, Limanowa, Malopolska) used to say to me, "Kasia, please be careful.  You have a wandering nature and I don't want you to wander off with the gypsies!"  Little did she know, her son married the daughter of a bunch of wanderers!  :) :)

All my best and in thanks,
Kasia
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9 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu - 9 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #36197 przez Molencki (Rafał Molencki)
Interestingly, here in 1827 we have father Jan Kolka, the cowherd/shepherd from Mchowo, still aged 50! Franciszka was born at 11am on June 21, 1827 of his wife here called Marianna Pajączkówna. Again  the organist got the mother's name wrong. They did not care much about the exactness of the records. As for the age, it was often more than approximate - ten, even twenty years less or more was a common practise, especially in death records. In those days people didn't often realize how old they were themselves, let alone the witnesses, usually next-door neighbors,  who brought the news to the priest.
In Franciszka's death record of 7pm March 5, 1828 Jan Kolka, pasterz dworski, i.e. the manor shep/cow-herd,  is 60 years old and his wife is now correctly described as Katarzyna Pajączkówna, aged 40.

Good luck with your search along Highway 57!

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9 miesiąc 1 tydzień temu #36313 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
Rafal:
Thank you for all you have done for me and my family.  I have been working on a project for the past few weeks and I'm getting ready to visit my uncle and cousins for the Easter weekend.  I have a a couple of documents for you to check.  I will send them when I return.  

Wishing you and your family a beautiful and peaceful Easter.  
Wesołej Wielkanocy!


Thank you again.  Yours,
Kasia

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8 miesiąc 4 tygodni temu #36357 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
Good day, Rafal!
Here is the marriage record of Augustyna Kolk and Franciszek Chaberski from Krasne.  Augustyna is the older sister of my great-grandfather, Michal.  

Thanking you for your help!
Kasia
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8 miesiąc 4 tygodni temu - 8 miesiąc 4 tygodni temu #36358 przez Molencki (Rafał Molencki)
Hi, here we go:

The village of Zbiki (I checked it - should be Żbiki)  1pm Aug 24, 1873, in the presence of Józef Moczulak, 47 and Józef Grabowski, 45, both servants at (?the mansion of) Żbiki the marriage ceremony was held between Franciszek Chaberski, widower of Marianna , a servant from Żbiki, aged 30, born at Bogate, son of late Maciej and Franciszka still living  (no maiden names given either for the first wife or the mother) and Augusta Amalia Kolk, aged 22, staying with her parents at  Żbiki, born at Linbark (I don't see the place on the map, either changed the name or could be Lidzbark?, a bigger town) in Prussia, daughter of Maciej and Elżbieta Smalc. Then the usual formulas about the banns on three successive Sunday, lack of antenuptial agreement and the info that the act was read out to all the participants on account of their illiteracy.

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1 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #38218 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
Greetings to you, Rafal.  I hope this finds you and your family in good spirits and good health.  I have had a very interesting year.  My mother and father celebrated 65 years of marriage this past August.  We had a wonderful celebration of life and love!  Since that time, I have begun indexing Polish documents.  Reading Polish becomes easier each time I index another record.  Russian is still not easy for me; I stay with documents in Polish.  This is a very satisfying activity.
I have found several cousins here in America by using the experience I have gained.  
I have finally found my great-grandmother, Franciszka Kiszel and Michal Kolk's marriage record!  I was attending a seminar in Niagara Falls, NY, USA in October and got copies of their death certificates while I was nearby.  It listed the names of their parents.  
Franscizka's parents are Wojciech Kiszel (Kisiel) and her mother was Rozalia Prokobiecka.  I searched through the indexed records (again) in Mazowiecki and found the listing for the marriage of two brothers and a sister!  They lived in Karniewo which is about 10 km from Szczuki!  Finally, I found the marriage record!
Now, I kindly ask you once more to assist me with the translation of this document.  I'm still looking for birth records, but this is certainly exciting!
And more exciting news...I am planning on visiting Poland next July!  I very excited about my trip!

For now, I wish you and your family all my best and I patiently await your response.

Warmest regards,
Kasia
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1 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #38220 przez Molencki (Rafał Molencki)
Hi, Kasia, great to hear from you again. Michał and Franciszka's marriage ceremony took place on Oct, 16 1887. The witnesses were Piotr Dziwanowski and Jan Banecki. The groom was a bachelor of 25 and he was the son of Maciej Kolk and Szarlota (Charlotte) born Szmalec (Schmaltz). He was born in Opaleniec in Prussia (you should look for his baptism record at either Wielbark or Opaleniec itself c1862). The bride was a virgin of 21, daughter of Wojciech Kiszel and Rozalia born Prokobiecka. She was born at ?Romanów and was living with her parents at Łukowo. The banns had been announced in the two parishes: Krasne and Karniewo.

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1 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #38221 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
Rafal:
Again, I'm so very thankful for your assistance in these translations.  I have here 3 more marriage documents: the first is Marianna Kiszel, the second is Edward Kiszel and the third Robert Wiktor Kiszel.  I can see they are the accurate family.  I am looking for clarification on the village(s) of their births.  There is a village called Wronowo in Gmina Karniewo which is not far from the village of Łukowo.  However, there is a village called Romanów in  Częstochowa Powiat.  These documents may help in tracking the movement of my Kiszel relations (there are many Kisiel/Kiszel families in the greater Częstochowa area.  

I am also attaching a picture of  a part of my family who attended my parents' celebration.

Thank you so much, again.

Kasia

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1 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu - 1 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #38223 przez Molencki (Rafał Molencki)
All right, here we go:

Sep 8, 1895 Henryk Rożniewicz, 22, bachelor, born and living at Krasiniec with his parents Aleksander and Michalina born Krzeczkowska married Marianna Kiszel, 17, virgin, born at Łukowo and staying with her parents Wojciech and Rozalia Prokobiecka at Wronowo (Wronowe)

Jan 17, 1897 Edward Kiszel, 24, bachelor,  born at Łukowo and living with his parents Wojciech Kisiel and Rozalia Prokobiecka at Wronowe, married Helena Lipińska, 17, virgin, daughter of Tomasz and late Józefa from Wronowe

Feb 26, 1905 Robert Wiktor Kisiel, 25, bachelor, woodworker, living and born at Łukowo (Łukowe) of late Wojciech Kisiel and Rozalia Prokobiecka married Aleksandra Murawska, 18, virgin, illegitimate daughter of Stefania Murawska

Feb 14, 1909  Edward Kiszel, 32, widower, born at Łukowo of the wooodworkers or carpenters, late Adalbert or Wojciech Kiszel and Rozalia Prokobiecka, married Józefa, 31, widow after Paweł Kaźmierczak, daughter of  Michał Raczkowski and Teofila Janiak

There's more details, but you've got the most important info above. So you're from upstate New York. Congratulations  to your parents on their exceptional anniversary!

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1 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #38224 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
Rafal:
Thank you again!  Yes, I was born in North Tonawanda, NY (outside of Buffalo, NY); my family moved to Central NY in the late 1960's.  Upstate NY is a beautiful area!
I am now indexing the birth records from Karniewo beginning in 1842; I continue forward until the records are written in Russian - but, I may try to see what I can do.  It is satisfying to complete each year knowing that there may be one name someone is searching for to complete a part of their family.  I want to thank you for being here for me and urging me in the right direction.  I have built my family tree to almost 1,500 people!  
Maybe, I will find some relatives hidden in these indexes!
I will keep in touch.
Kindly,
Kasia

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1 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38241 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
Greetings Rafał:  Now, I have found the death certificate of Wojciech Kiszel.  I am looking specifically for information on the village of his birth.  I have looked in the Karniewo records to see if the Romanów  might be the correct one with no results.  There are 3 other mentions of a Romanów; they are:  gmina Łódż / powiat Łódż, gmina Rzgów / powiat Łódż and one in powiat Częstochowa.  I will look at those records next.

Thank you, again!
Warmest regards,
Kasia
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1 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu - 1 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38242 przez Molencki (Rafał Molencki)
Hi, there! Wojciech Kiszel, the carpenter, died at 7am on June 29, 1904 at the age of 63. The record says that he lived and was born at Łukowe of "immemorable parents" and that he left behind his widow Rozalia Prokobiecka. So you should try and look for his baptism or birth in the same parish of Karniewo in the early 1840s.
As for the name Romanów, there were many more of those throughout the country in the 19th c., but some of them might have changed their names and/or were later incorporated into other bigger towns or villages and you won't find them in the present-day map of Poland. 19th century Słownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego lists as many as 21 Romanóws:

dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_IX/720

Given that yours come mostly  from north Mazowsze, I suspect that your Romanów will most likely be No. 1 or 2 in the Słownik list (parishes Słubice and Gąbin), but I may be wrong, of course.

PS I just looked up the parish of Karniewo births 1840-1842, but don't find the name Kiszel/Kisiel there:

www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M...-Q?mode=g&cat=548639

So not only were the parents immemorable, so was the place of his birth, I'm afraid.

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3 tygodni 2 dni temu #38405 przez kt13209 (Kathryn Thomas)
Rafal:
I hope you and your family enjoyed a blessed and Merry Christmas and I wish you a safe, healthy and happy 2020.  Thank you for help regarding Wojciech Kiszel.  I found the marriage record of Wojciech and Rózalia in the Karniewo records (which I am now working on indexing the birth records beginning in 1843; I am working on 1850 now).  I found that Wojciech was born in Szczytno.  It looks like the Kolk's and the Kizsel's orignated in southern Masuria.  Polish highway 57 certainly was the road used by my family!  Rózalia was born in Długosiodło.
So, now I have another Russian document for your help.  This is the marriage of Adam Kolk (brother of Michał) and Helena Banecka.  It looks like both Michał and Adam married women from the same area.  I assume that economic reasons brought them to the location.  I believe there was a sugar refinery in the Karniewo area.  Sugar refinery construction seems to be the driving force as most of my family appear to be carpenters.  Is there information available on 19th century construction in Poland?  It may provide more information on decisions made for frequent traveling.
Here is some news...I am coming to visit Poland in July.  I am very excited and one of my stops will be in Częstochowa.  I am planning on driving up Highway 57 to visit the villages of my family.
I can't say thank you enough; you have been a large help in discovering so much of my family!  
Again, thank you and Happy New Year!
Kasia

 
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2 tygodni 6 dni temu #38425 przez Molencki (Rafał Molencki)
Happy New Year to you and yours, Kasia! We just came back from our Christmas vacation. I'm pleased to hear that you managed to find the crucial wedding record of Wojciech and Rozalia. Now the most important info from the attached document (the handwriting is hard to read):

parish of Karniewo  June, 23 1889   6pm
witnesses: August (can't read his surname), 60 and Leon Lawendowski, 56,  both laborers from Łukowe
bridegroom: Adam Kolk, bachelor, aged 30, born in Prussia, living and working as a laborer at Krasiniec, son of Maciej Kolk and Szarlota Szmalc
bride: Helena Banecka, virgin, aged 21, daughter of Jan Banecki and Anna ?Andrzejewska, born and living with her parents at Łukowe
followed by the standard info about the banns proclaimed on three successive Sundays and no prenuptial agreement

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